Posted: 23.03.09 13:38. Title: blue-merle x blue-merle

Which countries kennel clubs allow breeding blue-merle to blue-merle?

 Posted: 23.04.09 18:14. Title: Fanna; are you sure ..

Fanna; are you sure it is not allowed to mate blue merle with blue merle in England? I thought it was allowed there...

Yes, the general rule is that it is the country of origin that has the responsibility and the right to decide the breeding rules of the breed and what is allowed. But it might be interesting to note that in a period up till 1993-94 it was allowed to mate roughs with smooths. There has actually been several periods during the collie breed's history where this has been allowed in the breed's country of origin. Reason: The smooths needed to broaden its dangerously small gene pool. The reason some countries like Sweden still allows it even after England put a stop to it in 1994, is that certain national kennel clubs listen to different advice than do the British Collie Club or the Kennel Club . They listen to advice from geneticists who warn that the smooth collie breed is constantly in need of "new blood" to keep healthy, and that it would be unwise to shut all doors. Maybe it is a bit daring to propose this, but maybe sometimes the country of origin doesn't always knows what's best for their breed...

Berit

 Posted: 18.05.09 21:40. Title: I am not sure that i..

I am not sure that it is forbidden to mate blue merle to blue merle in Britain. I believe that recently, it was decided that it was not to be recommended. I will try to find the answer to this question .
In the meantime, I put it to you that recently, in France, a breeder put down seven healthy male puppies at birth because she couldn't sell males. I know this is true because I was present when she announced it to all present at a show. There was much shock and horror and discussion on the forum (Collie Online), but there doesn't seem to be any rule against this. In England, you are told you may not cull healthy puppies. Once again, I will check on this fact. (I live in France, and this is why I am not too sure about the facts in Britain)
Gudrun, you may well sell a puppy to someone who culls perfectly healthy puppies - let alone non-viable double dilute merles. It would be very hard to prevent this - you would not even be told. I agree with you that merles should not be bred together and no puppies should be culled unless they are not viable.

 Posted: 18.05.09 21:54. Title: Hi Berit - I'm j..

Hi Berit - I'm just wondering how many rough collies I know that I would like to mate my smooths to. Not many!!!! In general, roughs would benefit from mating with rough smooths more that smooths would benefit from mating with roughs. Maybe American roughs would be better, but I really don't know enough about them, but the fact that roughs and smooths are frequently mated together there must mean that both varieties benefit from the genes we admire in the smooth.
I don't want to come down too hard on modern roughs, but when the smooth was mated with the rough in Britain, the roughs were still of the older type with less of the excessive coat they have now and still had the older longer heads etc - It would be interesting to hear from Tentola about the rough he used in the last rough/ smooth mating in Britain.

 Posted: 19.05.09 14:47. Title: I know in the US and..

I know in the US and Canada people do breed merle x merle (blue merle or sable merle)... I know of a few breeders who do this or who have double dilutes. I know of a breeder fairly close by who has a double dilute smooth male that is both blind and deaf. He is 3-4 yrs old now, and seems to do ok. He has been bred a couple times and has produced champion offspring.

As far as rough x smooth breedings. I am so glad in north america we are allowed to breed rough x smooth. I really prefer smooths, but I do have some roughs and because we are allowed to breed them together, they have stayed one breed, except for coat.. both roughs and smooths are used as preformance and working dogs here as well as show dogs! They really can do it all! I notice very little difference in temperament and behavior between the roughs and smooths. I think every kennel or bloodline will have a slightly different temperament, based on what they breed for, but as far as my dogs go, my roughs are every bit as active, and athletic as my smooths.

I'll be doing a rough x smooth breeding soon as my smooth bitch comes in season, which should be any day now!!

 Posted: 24.05.09 10:39. Title: The American collie ..

The American collie seems to differ a lot in temperament from European collies.Is there already a topic on fearfulness in collies on this forum? There has been a ridiculous news storm about it in the UK. I would like to start a discussion and give some links to information about this if there is not a topic already. The magazine, Kurtzhaar Collie has already touched on this subject.