Posted: 27.04.08 13:19. Title: Different colour combinations

What kind of system are in the world if you want to mate for example blue merle and sabel? In Finland that is forbidden but is that possible somewhere? Germany? Estonia? Etc...

 Posted: 27.04.08 15:49. Title: In Russia we have no..

In Russia we have not prohibition for such combination in collie, but usually breeders don`t make such combinations. If they do it, they make documents only for tricolour dogs from such litters, because in the other colour you could not be absolutely sure that this is genetically standard colour.

 Posted: 28.04.08 12:36. Title: It is allowed to bre..

It is allowed to breed sable x blue merle dogs in america.
usually in europe, as far as i know, breeders don?t do it, because you can get the colour "Sable Merle" wich is not allowed in FCI standards.

 Posted: 11.06.08 12:26. Title: Natalain wrote: If ..

Natalain wrote:

quote:

If they do it, they make documents only for tricolour dogs

hhhmmmm...but what about merles? Will they are stay witout registration?? for ex, some shelties in Russia. And they are took part in shows

 Posted: 10.08.08 17:01. Title: In Norway both Trico..

In Norway both Tricolour and Blue Merle can be registered with proper documents after a Blue Merle x Sable combination, as far as I know.

 Posted: 01.01.09 02:34. Title: :sm44: Well, acco..

Well, according to the Standard, there is no limitation in colour matings since there is no bad colours of coats *BUT* the same Standard says that eyes must be uniformly as dark as possible in all colours of coats except in Blue Merle which can have one or both eyes totally or partially blue. That means that Sable-Merle Collies are not allowed to reproduce if they display this fault (and this is the case most of the time). That also means that if a Sable-Merle has a perfect eyes colour, he/she can reproduce with no problem.

In France, Sable x BM matings and BM x BM matings are allowed, this is under the breeder's responsibility to define what to do and especially why to do it.
There is, theorically, no taboo although most breeders don't do these kind of matings because either they are afraid to have to kill homozygous Merle puppies at birth if BM x BM mating is done, or they will not be able to recognize Sable-Merle from Tri-factored Sable puppies if Sable x BM mating is done. Only few breeders are capable to do this.
When a Sable x BM mating is done, Sable-Merle puppies are quite recognizable from Tri-factored at birth. Sable-Merles are (a bit lighter) Sables but display irregular dark or black spots like Blue-Merles. The difficulty comes later when the puppy grows and changes its coat at the age of 1,5 month or 2, especially in Rough Collies. But the spots definitely reappear when the dog is adult, after one or two sheddings.
The French Kennel Club (the S.C.C.) recognizes only 1 type of Sable, it does not make the difference between the pure Sable, the Tri-factored Sable and the Sable-Merle in its system of registration for the Collie breed. So we can register any Sable puppy, knowing that those who display a bad eyes colour will never be (officially) allowed to reproduce. Those who display a perfect eyes colour can "bluff" many judges in shows, at least as long as they don't display their black spots in their coat again

As for the Blue-Merles born from Tri-f-Sb x BM matings, they are just Blue-Merles and are immediately and definitely recognizable at birth. One of the most famous example is Ch. Foxearth Fire Cracker (BM) whose sire was Ch. Foxearth Gold Fever (Tri-f-Sable) out of Foxearth Silver Fontan (BM). Here is the link of his pedigree with pictures < http://www.collie-online.com/pedigree/genealogie.php?parametre=Foxearth%20Fire%20Cracker >. This guy is found as a fondation sire in many English and Continental lines. "Gold Fever" was also "Silver Fontan's" grand-father by Ch. Sylbecq Draught Guinness at Foxearth...

Best regards and Happy New Year 2009
Françoise

 Posted: 02.01.09 01:38. Title: Sable puppies after ..

Sable puppies after BMxSable go also get proper registration papers, but they can not be used for breeding.. In Norway.

 Posted: 25.04.09 04:29. Title: I have done 3, sable..

I have done 3, sable x blue merle breedings over the last 5yrs or so.. and only ever got 1 sable merle.

Sable merles, in the USA are not listed in the breed standard as an accepted color, however, there is no disqualification in the AKC collie breed standard and so there are many sable merles that are shown and many champion sable merles.

The #1 smooth Collie in the US right now, is a sable merle.

I have done sable x tri or sable x blue breedings most often..... I have no problem doing sable x blue and consider quality of the dog, over the color of the dog. If the best male for my sable bitches are blue, I'll breed to it.