Posted: 01.03.11 08:13. Title: Smooths pups

We expected tricolour litter in April 2011 from lovely combination:

ex. C.I.B *) FIN CH EE CH KANGASVUOKON MICHELLE
CEA clear (as all littermates) / CEA clear
HD free hips A/A
Approved mental test +95 points
genetested for MDR +/- Carrier
genetested for DM N/DM Carrier
genetested for CEA/CH Normal (Optigen)

by. Gb imp. FOXEARTH FOLLOWING ON "Marco" is grand son of our dear late
C.I.B GB CH NORD CH FIN CH DK CH SE CH RU CH KANGASVUOKON PUTUPTHEPOW-WOW "Risto"
CEA clear (as all littermates) / CEA clear A/A Approved mental test +172 points (All Ristoґs pups were CEA clear both Fin and UK, even with some affected bitches, so he must have been CEA Normal...)

Marco is CEA clear (as all littermates) / CEA clear both UK and Finland as adult
HD free hips A/A
2 res. CCs in UK and res. best dog & res. CC in Fin
* genetested for MDR -/-
* genetested for DM N/N (Normal)
* will be CEA genetested

Int Ch Michelle is littermate to:
- Int Fin Ee Ch FinJw-06 LVV-08 K. Star Operation tri d CEA clear / CEA clear A/A approved mental test, lovely offspring
- 2 CCs K. Star Voyager bm d CEA clear / CEA clear A/A MUH Sweden, lovely offpring
- res. CC K. Mona Lisa tri b CEA clear / CEA clear B/B, lovely offspring
- Int K. Shannon tri b CEA clear / CEA clear A/A Approved mental test, lovely offspring
- K. Marlene - res. CC K. Mona Lisa CEA clear /-, approved mental test

She is mum of
- Int Ch K. Flynn tri d CEA clear / CEA clear A/A genetest CEA/CH Normal 10 CCs&CACIBs, lovely offspring
- Ch. K. Mary Lou tri b tri d CEA clear / CEA clear CEA/CH Normal 10 CCs & CACIBs, lovely offspring
- K. Oliwia CEA clear / CEA clear HD free (need confirmation from FKK about "letter" A or B), CCs CACIBs BOBs res. BIS trains for obedience and field trials
- K. Fashionette sw b 9 months old, CEA clear / (adult eye checking after 12 months age in Fin now), CEA/CH Normal (Optigen), MDR +/- Carrier, DM N/DM Carrier
(owned by Kangasvuokon)

Michelle comes from lines of open, friendly and very happy temperaments. She is very willing to work. What I most like is that she continues the line of excellent brood bitch qualities (regularly seasons twice a year, easy to mate and give birth to big pups and very lovely mum to her pups [take care and sleep with them untill 8 weeks age], she loves to play with her pups and take them to seach new things in our big garden yard. Should I write more, as you can see I like her very much

More information about Marco and Ansa from my email. Please keep hurry, if you want make reservation for one of her coming pups.
The pups can be tested for CEA, MDR or DM, if you want (possible results are CEA Normal / Carrier, MDR +/- or -/-, DM Normal / Carrier) and of course microshipping, pup health examination & ECVO (official certificate of eye examination) by ECVO authorized vet.

Best regards,
Minna Manninen
Kangasvuokon Collies
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/kangasvuokon/index.htm
kangasvuokon@gmail.com

*) subject to FCI confirmation

 Posted: 01.03.11 23:02. Title: Actually lovely comb..

Actually lovely combination

Just one question for general interest : what is "DM" gene test ?

Thank very much you in advance and fingers crossed for beautiful puppies

Best regards,
Françoise

 Posted: 02.03.11 23:51. Title: i think it's deg..

i think it's degenerative myelopathy:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerative_myelopathy

all the best for pups!

 Posted: 03.03.11 11:58. Title: Thank you very much ..

Thank you very much for the info :-) I have took a look at this article. I did not know this disease existed. Still one that the Collie did not need to get :-(((

Can someone tell me when and how this disease appeared for the first time in our breed ?

Best regards,
Françoise

 Posted: 03.03.11 13:12. Title: i know from DM, but ..

i know from DM, but only from some other breeds, special german shepherds.
and i also ask: what about DM at collies? i've never heard from a DM-collie (rough or smooth).

 Posted: 03.03.11 15:11. Title: They also mention th..

They also mention the Shetland Sheepdog. This breed is relative to the Collie.... Once again I have never heard about DM in Collie, either.

My feeling is that begins to be discouraging to breed.... And the problem is that if we want genetesting for X-Y-Z diseases, we have to sample 1, 2, 3 times and to send samples in those relevant labs because they don't want to dispatch their test throughout the world If only one or two labs in each part of the world were allowed to do these tests, that would be really great for us, we could bundle all tests we want at once and we could save money and time. In addition, the biggest majority of these labs are in USA. It is far especially if we send swab samples which are more fragile in term of delay of "survival" than blood. When we know that at least one week is needed to arrive in the labs, the swabs have the time to be rotten.

OFA lists labs which do these or those tests but does not mention any lab which is able *to prepare* the samples next to us (in Europe for *us*, or in Asia for Asian breeders, or elsewhere...).

All this becomes very complicated :-((((

Best regards,
Françoise

 Posted: 03.03.11 18:06. Title: Here is list of test..

Here is list of tested dogs in Finland - rough and smooth collies:http://collieyhdistys.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=8269
There are more affected rough collies... Here is one rough collie, who was euthanized due to DM -http://www.kotinet.com/downmoore/dustin.htm

 Posted: 03.03.11 21:40. Title: :sm51: Oh, sooooo ..

Oh, sooooo SAD about Dustin,
Sooooo SAD about all Collies DNA affected, we know now they will suffer one day,
Sooooo SAD about the Collie breed, really does not need to be affected of another genetic disease. What will be the next one ?
I have counted 26 Roughs tested : 10 are N/N (Normal, non carriers) and 3 DM/DM (affected), thus 13 N/DM (carriers).
2 Smooths tested : 2 N/N. But that does not mean that the Smooths are clearer than Roughs since interbreedings were made for long time.

Thank you very much Uptown Girl for these so precious infomation. And thank you for having put the link about this disease on each tested Smooth Collie sheet on your Database.

Now, we still have to manage with that shit in our breeding programmes. And have to redefine priorities.

Is OFA the unique laboratory to do this test ?

Best regards,
Françoise

 Posted: 04.03.11 18:39. Title: Another test... Whe..

Another test...

When does a test for epilepsy come? I think' that is more important, now when dogs with close relativs with ep are linebreed...

 Posted: 05.03.11 13:33. Title: Research on a geneti..

Research on a genetic test for epilepsy is in progress - http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/cerc.html<\/u><\/a>. However, it seems that it will take a while according the up-to-date report...

 Posted: 05.03.11 14:57. Title: OneWay's wrote: ..

OneWay's wrote:

quote:

When does a test for epilepsy come?

Well, I think you should ask labs for getting a response. I am not a reseacher and I have no crystall ball !

Do you really think that DM is NOT a dramatic disease ? Symptoms appear on dogs from the age of 7 years and if these dogs/bitches are really wonderful in both the Standard and Character they reproduce, transmitting that disease to their offsprings WITHOUT WE know it :-(((
Or do you think that a 7 years old dog has lived enough and should be put down ?

Epilepsy symptoms appear at a young age so we know it enough early and of course this dog/bitch SHOULD be retired from reproduction.
But what tells you that the brother or the sister of an epileptic dog/bitch is also epilectic or is carrier ? We even don't know if this mutation is Dominant or recessive neither if it is mono or polygenic nor if it is also related to the environment, etc.......
Far away from me to minimize the effects of this disease, but as far as I can see from the Smooth Collie Database there are "only" 3 cases of declared epileptic Smooths. Of course that certainly does not reflects the whole reality, all breeders/owners don't mention some or any health records.
And even MIX and MULTI-MIX dogs can be epileptic. Err... humans too Even if I have never seen a human in crisis.

As far as I read your posts on this forum and as far as I undestand what you mean, The Swedish administrations have tolerated Rough and Smooth Collies interbreedings in order to save the gene pool diversity. Is it for this reason you (Swedish breeders) mate two CEA positive Collies, producing entire CEA affected litters, affected at a more or less severe degree, colobomas and/or retinian detachments leading to blindness ?
You (OneWay's) mated an American Rough to one of your Smooth bitch, both CEA affected. In wanting to increase the gene pool diversity you also increased the number of CEA affected Collies. And you KNEW it. Do you really think this is a responsible breeding ? If only CEA was a small disease without bad consequences, to me that would be ok. But this is not the case.

To me, epilepsy is not a problem. I have never had any epileptic Rough or Smooth and never produced one, until now. And still, all my Roughs were linebred (even inbred) and my current Smooth are also linebred (even inbred).

Best regards,
Françoise

 Posted: 05.03.11 15:11. Title: komeva Thank you fo..

komeva
Thank you for the link

You took me at speed in answering

Best regards,
Françoise