Posted: 04.02.09 18:02. Title: Eyes

I am interested in of eyes genic testing and would like to know where have you tested geneticly your dogs eyes?
I know that Optigen is on place to test collies eyes of CEA/CH and rcd2-PRA. Do someone knows if there are any alternative places maybe in Finland or somewhere else near to Estonia?

 Posted: 04.02.09 20:00. Title: we have Zoogen labra..

We have Zoogen labratory in Saint-Petersburg, who make different genetic tests. As I know they make CEA/PRA tests and many others. But their are in process to get international licence for their results. I have spent many time to collect references about their work and make decision to try to make CEA-tests by them. But I don`t make it yet. You can see their homepage, but it is only in russian: http://www.zoogen.org/rus/

 Posted: 04.02.09 23:02. Title: Laboklin seems to of..

Laboklin seems to offer tests but I can't find the price. I've heard they do CEA tests from "cytobrush"sample, they don't need blood. I would be interested if anyone has done that?

 Posted: 05.02.09 09:05. Title: Yes, Laboklin does t..

Yes, Laboklin does the tests, I have done it on some puppies from my VIP litter. They do any test from cytobrushes, I had to sent in only one single sample for MDR1 (price ca. 30.- Euro) rough or smooth factor (price ca. 60.- Euro) and CEA (price about 150,- Euro).

 Posted: 06.02.09 09:07. Title: I forgot to mention,..

I forgot to mention, the CEA test is with Optigen Certificate

 Posted: 06.02.09 10:18. Title: me again, this is fo..

me again, this is for information in Finland: homepage www.laboklin.fi e-mail:info@laboklin.fi
or in Poland e-mail: lab.warszawa@laboklin.pl

 Posted: 06.02.09 10:25. Title: Thank you all for th..

Thank you all for the information

 Posted: 06.02.09 10:27. Title: http://genomia.cz/ C..

http://genomia.cz/
CEA - 79.20 EUR, MDR - 66.70 EUR

 Posted: 12.02.09 00:49. Title: I talked with one ma..

I talked with one man from Laboklin.He told me that test from blood sample is better than from cytobrush.Laboklin send blood sample or cytobrush to Optigen.I did the mdr1 test in Laboklin.I heard that Genomia is a very good laboratory.When you collect 20 or more blood samples (I mean for CEA test) it will be cheaper.

 Posted: 13.02.09 19:13. Title: If you want to be as..

If you want to be as close to a 100% sure as possible you should always send a blood sample for gene testing, other options are not as safe.

Berit

 Posted: 15.02.09 12:53. Title: ......but they put p..

......but they put people in prison identified by DNA from spit.......

 Posted: 18.02.09 09:42. Title: They probably do put..

They probably do put people in prison based on DNA proof from spit, but a result from a spit sample still can never ba as sure as a blood sample, because usually the owner herself takes the swab sample from the dog and send it to the laboratory. Or do you go the vet to have this done? If the owner does it herself there is always a small risk of the sample getting polluted by other genes if you are not very careful when taking the sample.

Wasnt' there a case somewhere in Europe not too long ago of a smooth that had been diagnosed with a MDR1 +/+ diagnosis, but then he still got affected puppies? If this has happende then it is a good example that spit samples are not 100% sure when it comes to DNA testing.

The Norwegian Kennel Club registers some DNA test results, like PRA for some breeds, but would never accept a test based on a spit sample: They only accept blood samples because it is considered much safer.

 Posted: 19.02.09 08:33. Title: well, there was one ..

well, there was one smooth that was diagnosed MDR1 +/+ who was from a mating that should not have produced any +/+ puppies.......
as far a I know he was tested from blood.
There is one lab here in Germany where not only one case had wrong results.

My male OneWay's Miraculix was diagnosed from a bloood sample with wrong results +/- (not from the above lab)and I only found out by matings that this was not possible. I changed labs and went back to Laboklin which is working on DNA since a long time.

Yes, if I want my puppies registered with the results in the stud-book I have my vet take the samples and eventually I take a blood sample later before mating. From the puppies I take the first samples myself at an age of 2 weeks to know about their state and help me decide what to keep and it is not possible to take blood from a so young puppy.

 Posted: 19.02.09 19:34. Title: Very interesting. If..

Very interesting. If German breeders have to gene test every single puppy for the MDR1 deficiency; doesn't it get very expensive in the long run? In Norway and the other Nordic countries we so far don't test for MDR1 at all...

Berit

 Posted: 26.02.09 12:01. Title: I know........ well,..

I know........
well, we do not have to test the puppies but my aim in breeding is:

health, soundness and beauty - and I want it all

 Posted: 28.02.09 16:15. Title: I totally agree with..

I totally agree with you in principle; of course we all want healthy, sound and beautiful smooths . I would even add a fourth aim for my breeding: A strong mental disposition without reservedness or nervousness.

But what is interesting to discuss is HOW we're going to reach that goal, and how fast is the realistic speed at which we can better the breed's health? I do believe in gene testing for illnesses and ailments that are a serious threat to the individual and also the breed's health. Gene testing is probably the only tool that will make it possible to reduce the occurrence of certain genetic faults in the breed, faults that due to unwise breeding practises the last 100 years have been able to spread unchecked in the breed. For instance up to two thirds of the collie population is ailing from CEA and MDR1, on average (a very rough estimate). But I think it is very important that collie breeders don't panic and stop using carriers or even affected animals in the breeding programme whether it be CEA or the MDR1 genetic disorder, the result would be that the already genetically compromised breed would get an even smaller gene pool on which to survive. Then we might find ourself having to deal with even more serious conditions caused by heavy inbreeding, and that to me is not an option.

The perfect smooth doesn't exist, so in breeding one will always have to make compromises, you can't have it all. And the more gene tests that are made available, the more there is to consider when breeding, and the harder it is to find the smooths that have everything. So if one decides to do a lot of gene testing, I hope we all agree that it is important to move slowly and not exclude all carriers from breeding all of a sudden. The goal should not be to eradicate the disease from the breed, but to slowly increase the number of clinically healthy animals. I believe a programme of eradication is not possible without seriously damaging the breed's vulnerable gene pool. What do you guys think?

Berit

 Posted: 01.03.09 09:59. Title: I know I can't h..

I know I can't have it all............but I can try

A strong mental disposition without reservedness or nervousness
this is what "soundness" means for me

Oh sure, I do agree with you in all matters!
Only, where we stand now we will have to consider CEA and MDR just because so many of the breed are affected. I imported two CEA affected smooth bitches from America because I liked their overall apearance, pedigree and health besides CEA. So I had to find or raise CEA normal smooths for them, which I did. And I am happy about the offspring and I think I did my share of bringing new blood into Europe. And with the carriers I can keep on going into the direction I am aiming for my breeding. Like you said, slowly but with care.

 Posted: 01.03.09 17:48. Title: The we agree! Slowly..

The we agree! Slowly but with care

Berit

 Posted: 01.04.09 08:41. Title: In Slovenia can be d..

In Slovenia can be done MDR test on vaterinary faculty...and he price is fantastic, only 26 ? ...
just need a little more to wait for the result...