Posted: 23.11.09 14:29. Title: Thyroid tests

Hi all,

I wonder wether there is a difference in the type of thyroid tests when some of you write "TgAA" or "T4".
Does TgAA correspond to a genetical test ?
Does T4 correspond to a "simple" blood-serological analysis ?

Thank you in advance for your answers

Best regards,
Françoise

 Posted: 24.11.09 08:33. Title: TSH, T4 and free T4 ..

TSH, T4 and free T4 indicate one's actual level of thyroxin and thyroid stimulating hormone. TgAA tells if dogs thyroid galnd has started to run down. Therefore TgAA can be used to foretell if a dog is going to have thyroid illness later in his/her life. Anyhow if TgAA has been taken from an older dog who already suffers such an illness, result can be converse because of such a lot of thyroid gland has already been destroyed. That's why TGAA is recommended to take only from young dogs.

And, as I've been told, TgAA does only indicate if thyroid illness is autoimmune. When thyroid disease is caused from some other reason, TgAA level can stay normal.

Finnish Collie club has been asking from a group of scientists leaded by Hannes Lohi to study genetic appearance of thyroid ilnesses from smooth collie, but as you all know, that can take years and also there is a big possibility it may never be found out. Meanwhile we all should send dna-samples from our smooths to the group, especially those who already suffer such an illness.

 Posted: 08.12.09 22:34. Title: Thank you very much ..

Thank you very much for your answer :-) Sorry to be late in replying you, very busy at this moment ...

If I understand well, both are from blood sample for serological analysis.

What is the normal level of thyroxin in a dog ?

How young the dog must be for TgAA test ?

What are the symptoms when the thyroid is destroyed ?

What are the other thyroidian illnesses apart autoimmune ?

Are there statistics about thyroid illnesses ? If yes, what are they ?

Maybe my questions sound a bit idiot but I have never heard about this matter when I owned and bred Roughs. I learnt a lot, and more and more, since I have Smooths Collies. Of course, Veterinarian medecine hugely progressed since 34 years !!! ;-)

As for the genetic question, I am agree with you. On the other hand, as Hannes Lohi says herself, it exists about 400 diseases mutations. How to eradicate one disease without to see some others appearing ?
And what about the Standard if the selection is based only on the eradication of these diseases ?

Best regards,
Françoise

 Posted: 09.12.09 09:15. Title: TgAA test is recomme..

TgAA test is recommended to take in 1-2 years, but if the dog is healthy and has no symptoms of thyroid disease, it can be taken a bit later too. Most common symptoms are: bad coat, increasing weight, easily getting cold, low activity and tiredness, sterility and low sexual activity, sometimes pain in joints. And these all are quite common with older dogs, therefore many people doesn't even think their dog has somethig wrong and they don't go to the vet. And that leads us to situation we don't exactly know how usual this is. Second comes that thyroid ilness is also quite common with humans, therefore when their dog is having the same thing older people think it's normal and they just medicate their dog and stay quiet. And of course, there can be some other, more serious illnes which causes the thyroid hypofunction. With Google I've found many interesting articles, try it.

There we meet the problem, what is autoimmune (and may be result from degeneration) and what belongs to "normal" aging process, as with humans. If the TgAA test has not been taken as youngster, we may never know. And do we know afterall anything? Even vets seems to disagree with these things, how early should the medication be started and when having a dog whos levels are on borderline, are they ill or not? How we should act with them in breeding?

The problem came in public when Finnish Kennelclub made their antidoping programme. Suddenly many dogs (many breeds of course) had to be left out from shows, agility and other exams as they were on medication for thyroid illness. Time before antidoping nobody even talked about this though I've red somewhere it's the most common ilness of all dog ilnesses on these days.

You may wonder why am I so interested in this case. Well, my bitch "Lettu" has high TSH-level. But her T4 and free T4 are within normal, and she has no symptoms at all, she seems to be in great condition. Blood samples were taken from her "just in case" when two males refused to mate with her. So far we have not started to medicate her, and as the levels seem to stay the same, in fact I do not know wheter she is ever going to be ill or not? Her 2 years old daughter was tested after this and she is TgAA negative, thank god.

 Posted: 16.12.09 14:27. Title: Thank you very much ..

Thank you very much for your explainations I asked these questions because of a Smooth bitch has a very small white spot on one of her corneas and went to the Veterinarian University at Ophtalmo Service. A blood sample has been taken for different analysises, they said "eveyhing is normal" but no written report was printed. The bitch has no longer her seasons since last year, April, so her usual vet asked if a T4 has been made. The bitch does not express any symptoms you describe except for the seasons. Maybe the owner should ask the Unervisity if the T4 has been made and to send her the written report....

As for the thyroid in itself, I recently read an excellent (paper) article about how wild wolves have been domesticated. In short, many ways of researches have been analysed for already very long time but in the end, recent paleontological discoveries enlighted that wolf's domestication came from the least feared animals facing humans so that they, generations after generations and quickly, could live with our species members without any problems, showing that the most "courageous" wild wolves were rather opportunists at first (eating humans meals rests and becoming more and more "interested" in living with humans). Those wolves who were too feared stayed apart or returned to the wild life. Those wolves who "decided" to stay with humans began to transform themselves, physically and psychologically, and humans started to consider these "new" animals more like friends rather than ennemies and started a selection for all sort of purposes according to the natural of each animal and the humans needs. New scientists have also discovered that, in the past century in Russia, a man in charge to breed wild foxes for fur selected those animals who were the least feared facing men and then the apparence and the mental of these foxes changed quickly (in a delay of 20 years) expressing folded ears, new colours of fur (even pie), started "to bark" (yes !), etc. These scientists concluded that thyroid played a big role in these foxes "domestication" and thus in the ancient wolves domestication.

Once I read this article, I wondered wether our today dogs thyroid problems would not come from "wild" (not enough socialised) dogs or, on the contrary, from too much "domesticated" ones (too much petted and cared).
All serious breeders know that a well minded bitch is much appreciated for breeding than a bad charactered one because she passes her emotions and stress to her future babies. I would be very interested to know in which case thyroid problems are the most encountered....

Best regards,
Françoise

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