Posted: 31.03.10 10:01. Title: Teeth and bite

Have you experienced with puppies (some months old) that bites are not the best? The upper jaw is longer a bit than the one under with just some milimeters? Something like an overshot bite? Will it disappear with age? And what to do?

 Posted: 31.03.10 20:04. Title: Hello Viva, The upp..

Hello Viva,

The upper overshot (as well as the under overshot) is a fault prohibited by the Standard. Scisors bite is required, a very tiny space between upper and under incisives is tolerated but the dog should not be given the Excellent card. Judges usually consider 1 militer as the maximum admissible.

Under overshot is straightly disqualifying.

Both faults never correct themselves with age as the length of bites is genetically regulated (separately) and there is nothing to do. Except to not make the affected dog/bitch reproduce.

Until now, I personally never experienced this kind of problems but I saw from my own eyes two smooths with under overshot (one puppy and one adult).
And numerous are Roughs Collies and Smooths who has upper overshot.

Best regards,
Françoise

 Posted: 01.04.10 12:53. Title: Hi Viva, I experienc..

Hi Viva,
I experienced, that the underjaw is growing a little later that the upperjaw but not after the age of about 6 months. Then the bite should be correct, a scissors bite with hardly any space between the upper and lower teeths, the upper teeth closing right behind the lower.
Like Francoise mentioned it is quite common among european collies to have narrow and weak underjaws, even if they have all teeths as the standard requires. Quite different from the american collies with strong underjaws, there the standard requires strong underjaws but does not mention the teeths.
/Gudrun

 Posted: 02.04.10 06:20. Title: What a nonsense, thi..

What a nonsense, this comes from trying to avoid mistakes in english and turning the sentences around and around
- the upper teeth closing right behind the lower - that is wrong, it must be the upper teeths closing right in front of the lower !
Sorry

 Posted: 04.04.10 08:20. Title: 4 smooths out of my ..

4 smooths out of my 5 ones has had notable overbite during their growth, just in age 5-8 months. All of them have became scissors bites spontaneously when dogs are grown up.

There still can be a problem if the canine teeths are not settled right. Sometimes they seem to grow straight up and make a hole in the upper gum. Sometimes they turn right by themselves, sometimes they don't and veterinary dentist care is needed.

 Posted: 04.04.10 15:43. Title: Glenmorangie wrote: ..

Glenmorangie wrote:

quote:

Both faults never correct themselves with age as the length of bites is genetically regulated (separately) and there is nothing to do. Except to not make the affected dog/bitch reproduce.

J

Actually this is not completely correct. Well I may be for European dogs, I'm not sure, as I have no experience with them. However I had a Rough bitch years ago, that had an under bite until she was about 4 months old, and it corrected as she grew up and her head lengthened. She ended up with a perfect scissor bite.


ack Mack wrote:

quote:

Quite different from the american collies with strong underjaws, there the standard requires strong underjaws but does not mention the teeths.

actually the standard does mention teeth a little bit.

"The teeth are of good size, meeting in a scissors bite. Overshot or undershot jaws are undesirable, the latter being more severely penalized. "

 Posted: 04.04.10 18:10. Title: Spiritwind - I know ..

Spiritwind - I know
What I meant in the first place is, that the european standard asks for a complete scissors bite, that is all 42 teeths !
I imported 3 american smooths and other breeders where concerned about them maybe not having all teeths because the american standard does not ask for it. But they all had
Happy Easter
Gudrun

 Posted: 04.04.10 19:09. Title: Jack Mack wrote: Sp..

Jack Mack wrote:

quote:

Spiritwind - I know What I meant in the first place is, that the european standard asks for a complete scissors bite, that is all 42 teeths ! I imported 3 american smooths and other breeders where concerned about them maybe not having all teeths because the american standard does not ask for it. But they all had Happy Easter Gudrun

Oh.. I misunderstood. Sorry

I've seen missing teeth in some Collies every now and then, but I don't see it to often. Usually IF they do, its 1 or 2 premolars, right behind the canines.

I see much much more teeth issues in Shelties over here than in Collies.. luckily.. Missing teeth in shelties in not uncommon, I've also seen all kinds malocclusions with the bite on Shelties. I remember seeing one sheltie a friend of mine leased several years ago for a litter that had NO premolars on her bottom jaw, either side of her mouth....

 Posted: 04.04.10 19:10. Title: Sorry, I had to regi..

Sorry, I had to register again, because I forgot my password.
So thanks for all the answers. I believe that this small space between the upper and under jaws is only because of growth. I checked it again and it is only 1 milimeter and at very early age the bite was perfect. I hope it will be perfect again soon. But I really appreciate that you shared your experience with me!